Editorial // “Irony, the best of all the elements”

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So, as you’re probably already aware, Wargaming EU did a very silly thing recently…

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50 Comments:

  1. I don’t buy that Foch’s language was the problem. If I watch Claus Kellermen or Dez Gamez they use that language all the time and WG has no issue.

    Think it was a clear case of censorship and bullying

  2. Not that I am in any way supporting Wargaming for threatening a copyright strike, there is a potential legal angle they likely could use to defend their actions. I assume when you agree to be a Community Contributor there is some agreement they have for this? More than likely the ‘rights’ that they extend to CCs for advanced viewing of their intellectual property (meaning a new tank) is grounds for this sort of action. It’s sort of like when any company send out a preview copy of a book, movie, or product. They do that for marketing purposes and expect a certain type of article or result from this meeting of the minds between two parties. They obviously do NOT expect that party to put up videos with titles like F%^# Wargaming’s X Product.

    Without the ‘rights’ to show this copyrighted product prior to general release to the public, they probably did have some legal rights to file a strike. Lawyers. Yay.

  3. I’m glad that Foch has succeeded in getting everyone focused on the whole pay-to-win thing, even if it was a pyrrich victory.

  4. Foch is a guy calling bad players “faggots”. No sympathy. It’s 2017, after all.

  5. Not recent, but you missed the Cromwell B and E25 from your list of OP premiums. To my mind, premiums should earn a crap ton of credits and XP, but should be inferior to a tank I can grind. The only way that WG will nerf premiums these days is by buffing absolutely everything else!

  6. stewart mcallister

    very well put sir

  7. Man, imagine if all the EU Community Contributors resigned in support of Foch. Now that would’ve been proper drama, and would’ve surely made WG understand what they did wrong.

  8. You went full gaijin, never go full gaijin

  9. Well, when you have your own kid and it throws itself on the ground in front of you and other people because it is upset about some minor thing, yelling and kicking around… What will you do? Ask the kid to stop (usually does not work), ask again with a threat that third time you won´t be asking anymore. Kid is still yelling and kicking… So you will grab the kid by its hand and put a few light spanks on its butt… Then you will ask “Do you like it? Do you want this to be every time?” I know that you western people are very touchy and sensitive about this subject but by doing this you will get your kid to think about its actions, consequences and avoid it being a little spoiled oversensitive brat… So I kinda agree with WG, Foch was that kid, they politely asked him to put down the video, he refused, they asked him again with a small threat that next time it would be bad and there we are. I see nothing wrong he crossed the line with his crying.

  10. Evil Popcorn Generator

    “Sometimes big companies abuse the system”

    Just sometimes??

  11. in b4 ph3lan falls on his sword or is pushed into it.

  12. Foch was seemed frustrated about the issue of WG being not in touch to the player base, the first video was more of a rant. Then WG community management fucked up by the threat of DMC. Ph33lan is in deep shit ATM as well.

  13. Circon and Foch can always and should give an objective review of a tank. If it’s bad or good will always be MY decision.  Now if they don’t like the policies of WG they can always go elsewhere. Often new tanks are op to players who don’t know how to pen them, it’s nothing new. I have no problems with this new Chysler K or 252 Def., contrary it’s kind of fun! Don’t forget WG is there to make $$$ and nothing will change that.

  14. ラー油美味しいチャーシューめん

    WG has had a lot of pushback on its most recent update for wotblitz. Thousands of complaints have been aimed at their rework of equipment that makes the grind much more onerous but at the same time offering a monetized shortcut. Because blitz is downloadable from the Google and Apple stores, the disgruntled hit back by sinking the game’s ratings from 3/4 to1/4.

  15. hey Jedi please please pleaee contact iChase and explain this cause he says WG is within full legal right for the threat wich is BS

  16. James Stephenson

    Does it make sense that they’re releasing strong heavies because no one was playing heavies? It was becoming World of Mediums & TDs for a while there.

    So now we get Maus buffs, Japanese superheavy buffs and OP heavy premiums… Could be that they aren’t meant to have frontal weak points anymore, forcing increasingly mobile tanks to out-manuever them.

    I don’t know… just a thought.

  17. Good video Jedi. Well thought out, eloquent, accurate, and thorough.

  18. So sir foch used the wrong words to express themselves.
    While the other insulted the kid of a developer.
    Sir foch was asked to remove the video and refused then wg threatened copyright.
    Wg did issue an official apology for their mistake. I wish you could have started with the apology and focused more on how badly he expressed himself.
    Patriot and chrysler k might be a bit op but then again the vk b and the Japanese line don’t have frontal weakness.
    Defender and liberte have front weakspots

  19. honestly I think YouTube has an amazing opportunity to start making money with something like a YouTubers protection guild that for a few dollars a month you get extra benefits one of them being to be able to request lawyers to fight fraudulent copyright strikes in order to protect video creators. Another would be after a copyright strike your videos will still be monitized but all money will be kept in limbo until the strike is cleared if it’s not cleared half goes to Google and the other half goes to the guild for whatever might be useful.

  20. On a sidenote: You state that this power creep / P2W issue is specific to WoT and not to WoWS. There actually are two reasons I see to be worried about Warships in this regard:

    1. The past Ranked season: the meta strongly favoured a lot of premium ships and, relatively speaking, very few standard ships;
    2. There seems to be a trend right now: WG distributes a new premium ship among CCs for previewing; the CCs list strengths and weaknesses; the overall conclusion tends to be: you can do well in this ship if it fits your playing style and you know how to deal with the weaknesses of this particular ship; WG then buffs the weaknesses out of the ship before public release.

    This trend saddens me at least as much as the trend of impenetrable tanks (which makes sense, since these days I play more Warships than Tanks – but still).

  21. Going to be fun seeing what Jim Sterling says about it. Wargaming somehow decided it would be a good time to just start shooting everywhere. Shame it probably won’t have any real effect on it. Sales will carry on being high and all that jazz.

  22. I am over the actions and reactions thing. It is time to talk about issues. I understand that companies are in business to make money. They have to pay employees and all the other costs of running a business. If they have investors, those investors will reasonably expect to make a fair return on the investment. However, some statements made by WG are not wholly true.
    1) The game is not pay to win but pay to advance faster. This ignores the fact that to advance wholly by ingame grinding of vehicles still comes to a stop when you are out of garage spots. You can sell old vehicles but if you wish to keep them but still want to advance, you will pay. The same reasoning also applies to barracks slots.
    2) Premium ammo costs ingame credits now, so its fair to all. So you need to buy premium acct time and/or premium vehicles to make enough credits to buy premium ammo. Not a very well hidden cost.
    Next issue – is there a need in the game to have players spending no money, considering the company needs to make money?
    1) Yes, to attract new players. Some will leave but some will stay and spend money.
    2) Non paying players fill queues so payers have less time in queue.
    3) These players are usually cannon fodder that can sometimes make the grade anyway. They find that they are good enough to be willing to invest money.
    Current issue – releasing vehicles that force use of premium ammo to be successful in or against.
    1) The more choices a player has, the more likely they stay a player (as long as there are not so many choices that would swamp the player)
    2) Forcing players to do something lowers there desire to stay with that game.
    Those things said, I do see some positive changes – new matchmaking, arty changes for the better, light tanks going thru tier 10. Possible introduction of bigger maps with less channeling which makes lights more relevant. Please keep it to 15 vs 15 though.

  23. Matthew Carberry

    Over here we call it the Streisand Effect.

  24. fires ISU APCR at Chrysler sidescraping at a 45* angle… “We didn’t even scratch them!”

  25. I am playing wot some time now and notice that new tanks were always OP, and if you are prepared to pay you can have fun, because in the time regular player grinds to it, it was already nerfed. I dont like wg politics and lately realy started to hate them in every way, also with this unbalanced games etc. so : f u w g.

  26. You know… I think a serious discussion needs to be had about the use of the term ‘overpowered’ in relation to premium tanks in this game. (Or indeed just tanks in general). The following applies to tanks on their initial release, not from changes through game patches (which also needs to be addressed, but not nearly as much as one might think).

    With regards to the philosophy behind how premium tanks are balanced… I am perfectly ok with a tank that are released being AS GOOD AS a same tier tech tree tanks, if they have normal +2/-2 match making. I see this as acceptable, especially when the tank is viewed in conjunction with its price. Even $30 is a lot for a pixel tank (like, the Cromwell B, for instance), but tier 8 tanks are even more insane (near the price of a AAA gaming title by itself) ( You can talk about a tanks value, compared to the value of a game, but value is a very subjective thing… ). Still, for $30+ for a tank with normal matchmaking, it better be as good as a tank I can research. This is fin, I would even consider this normal for many games. These tanks dont provide advantages over tech tree tanks, other than require no time to get. Which is fine. (These are tanks like the Berlin Quartet (which are simply copies of existing tech tree tanks (or near copies in the case of the IS-2 B). I also include the AMX M4 49, and Lorraine 40t in this category.) For reference a well balanced tank will do great as top tier, averagely as mid tier, and below average as bottom tier (provided player skill is averaged out).

    The problem arises when a premium tank is released STRICTLY BETTER than a same tier tech tree vehicle. Tanks like the T26E5, Skorpion G. These tanks are ‘overpowered’. They are strictly better than their tech tree counterparts (the T32 and Rhm. Borsig, respectively). They both pass the two litmus tests that are important for determining if a tank is OP:

    1. Can you do better across your entire MM bracket in them, than you could in a tech tree vehicle.

    and

    2. Would you rather be driving them than their tech tree counterparts.

    “But Avalon…” I hear you saying, “why arent eh Lorry 40t or AMX M4 49 included in the list of OP tanks?” And the answer is simple: they arent OP. The Lorry is rather well balanced for a tier 8 autoloading medium. It huge, has tin foil for armor, and its gun is average at best. The M4 49 is also huge, its relatively unagile, its gun is trash, and aside from its great frontal armor its over all protech is weak,; the cupola is weak and the shoulder limit the amount of angling you can do.

    “But where are the 252U, and Chrysler K?” They fall into this 3rd category of tanks: they are not OP. They are not balanced. They are BROKEN.

    A tank like the 252U has great armor, but no so great that it cant be defeated by tier 9 and 10 tanks. Additionally its gun is actually trash (outside of its initial alpha) and its relatively unagile. Its very strong as top tier, but weak outside of that type of match up. Given the choice between driving an IS-3 or 252U, Id rather be in an IS-3.

    Looking at the Chrysler, its got near impenetrable frontal armor… unless youre mid or bottom tier, in which case your armor means very little. The gun is terrible (unless youre firing gold) and while youre agile, you arent fast. And you have a rear mounted turret, rendering you mostly uselss unless youre on flat ground and your targets are as well. Given the choice between the Chrysler and a T32, Id rather have the T32. (Actually Id rather have the T26E5… but that tank is OP so..)

    And this is the crux of the discussion: A tank that is BROKEN does not mean it is OVERPOWERED, while a tank that is OVERPOWERED is also BROKEN. They are not the same thing, and should not be treated as such.

    Both of the two categories are bad for balance as a whole, but they are different things. The Chrysler is broken. The 252U is broken. Neither are overpowered. The T26E5 is overpowered. The Skorpion is overpowered. Both are ALSO broken.

    And that is a distinction we need to make. Wargaming has onyl released 2 OP premiums, but theyve released 4 broken ones. And thats bad.

    As an aside to this: We need to stop encouraging WG to buff premiums so much and start becoming ok with them nerfing them: unnerfable premiums is bad for balance. And asking for every premium to be mega buffed because its bad is ALO bad for balance.

  27. Basically WG have fucked up and have been doing so for quite a while. Foch is the only one with the balls to call them on it. Regardless of the language he used, he is 100% right about WG and how they have become a money grabbing machine with no real regard for their customers.

  28. Frederick Burkert

    Personally I can’t abide Foch’s delivery.
    But I also can’t abide the reaction from WG and both sides right or wrong will have learned from it.
    Jingles steers clear of Gaijin due to copyright strike potential if I remember correctly.

  29. #StopKillingPuppiesWG !!!

  30. looking at this http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/629174-wg-going-batshit-over-ccs/ it seems like Wargaming is throwing Ph3lan under the bus.

  31. Marvin Westmaas

    #freefoch #fireph3lan

  32. Rubicon crossed a line, the *actual* Cucktaku comments’ libel and defamation over Foch’s Chrysler tirade is the first Gold Round fired: Alea iacta es.

  33. Chryslers are now swarming on EU. What a joke. Shooting and being shot with gold all day long. I can hear WG office going “ka-ching” from here…

  34. So… you’re going to totally ignore the comment from the Head of the community section (Nirjal?) basically saying that Ph3lan misspoke, probably due to a translation error, and that they would never issue a copyright strike.

    So you’re just fueling flames that are already dead

  35. when is everyone going to wake up to the fact all WG are interested in is making as much money as they can until its cash cow WoT drys up..they do not give a flying fuck about what players think and you know this because it takes them forever to react to player feed back UNLESS your slagging them off…then this happens….wake up people and smell the BS #FreeFoch

  36. Double Double 4G

    Remember, you can always count on WG to do the right thing – after trying everything else first 😉

  37. This whole thing has long left the discussion of what is legally right (incidently, Wargaming can do call a takedown on any video that contains their intellectual property).

    Foch was asked in a friendly manner to take down the video as it was, an let’s be realistic here, simply just a whole bunch of insults thrown at Wargaming with very little what could pass as constructive critizism even if you strech that term quite generously. Foch then refused to take it down.

    Would anybody of the people who are defending the stuff Foch said, not WHAT he said but HOW he said it, let stand if if was addressed towards you? Yeah right.

    Yeah, Ph3lan as a representative of WG worded the consequences poorly but bear in mind that few people at Wargaming are native english speakers. Deliberate misunderstandings are commonplace amongst the Anti Wargaming Jihadists (who ironically enough still play their games), just have a look at some of the reactions towards Sub_Octavians comments on Reddit.

    Step it down a little everybody. Poor wording and misinterpretation on both sides. Foch will (hopefully) never be a Wargaming CC again, that bridge was burned when he published the conversation between him and Ph3lan.

  38. scew that dumb asshole victor hes f up a game that he started off with being good they have become money grabing wankers at WG over charging EU memebers

  39. Thanks for the sensible, level headed appraisal. I listened to it whilst shoring up my Irish Kingdom in CK2. 😉

  40. About what PHJ said about the game not evolving:

    I think the next evolution that WarGaming needs to invest in is player map design. Franchises like halo would not still be popular without some sort of “forge” system. I hate that I can predict with some certainty how the game is going to go. I am always excited when WG releases a new map and noboby knows where to go. It’s a lot more exciting playing especially if you have a group of friends who are playing with you and you are working together to understand this new map. Just my 2 cents.

  41. thanks for explaining PHJ, love you! and never budge in to censoring rom companies/governments.

  42. Michael Grennek

    this is just childish, on everyone’s part. however, that’s Foch’s M.O. Why would WG lower thier standard of communication so puclically?

  43. Hexagram Photography

    Not wgs only fuckup in the recent history

  44. Maybe it is a one-time incident and Ph3lan and Nijil will get fired for it and WG will fix their shit.

    Maybe it is a first step in an ongoing program by WG to go full Gaijin against anyone who hurts their feelings/profit.

  45. Tarsis Youdontneedtoknow

    Speculation? This does not just scream old school KGB reaction to someone speaking a truth they did not want anyone hearing? Then Ph3len says, “We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.”   I mean seriously…. display a picture of a goon squad in front of your tied up family and say it was a misunderstanding.

    Regardless.. forget not Foch’s message right? They ARE going full …. doofus.

  46. The problem with not resigning from the Community Contributor program is that we can’t believe anything you say.

    For example, if you were to post a video giving a positive review to the Chrysler K, we don’t know if you genuinely think it is a good tank or if you are complying with WG editorial policy to preserve your CC club membership.

    I have no doubt that QB’s review of the Chrysler K is unashamedly positive.

  47. If they disliked his way of expression that’s what they should challenge, which they can’t really do in any good way. The moment they try to use other leverage it’s blackmail. If you “blackmail” someone in order to silence them in the US this is offence by federal wall… In Europe this is not the case. Foch is not US citizen and can’t really complain in that way…

    Blackmail legally is defined as any leverage that forces you to take an action you don’t want and the offender benefits from. Now proving in court that this DMCA threat is a blackmail is impossible, but that doesn’t change it’s nature.

  48. What ticks me off the most is tanks like the Chrysler K have made the old premiums like the IS-6 and Lowe completely irrelevant. Those older tanks, even using premium ammo can not compete. They’re too slow to get behind a K and their penetration can’t possibly go through the front, especially the machine gun ports are not a separate hit box like other tanks.
    A hard and bitter insult from Wargaming for those of us that started this game with those premiums and have grown to love them.

  49. How does wargaming learn from this? They have been doing this for 3 +years on their forusm and in game chat. Anytime you voice something they are against they bann you. They just decided to stretch their power. Wargaming is shit. Why any Community Contributer would stick with them after this is beyond me. You all banded together to form the CC. You should stand together now.

  50. 25:00 New content isn’t necessary new tanks. How about new maps, map modes, objective based game play, camo skins and so on. But somehow that is what WG is a bit lackluster

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