HE Shell rework on Sandbox – My thoughts!

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Source: Circonflexes

Sharing my thoughts on the latest sandbox changes.
https://discord.gg/vnVP5FK
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61 Comments:

  1. I know some of you might not agree and that is fine! Keep it civil and let WG know your thoughts, download and test the sandbox yourself.
    Have a good friday everyone! <3

    • Vojtěch Líčeník

      so it’s unhealthly to oneshotkill tanks in my KV2 with 20+ sec reload from upclose but it’s okey to do the same with Skorpion G from across half the map? how is that fair??? the point was that you could kill anything but you had only one opportunity if you wasted it you were dead! that was the fun the risk and whether it paid off…I swear one more “fix” like this and I will curse WG and go play warthunder and I told myself back in 2013 that I would never do that to my beloved WoT… last chance WG or we are leaving for good…

    • @Vojtěch Líčeník I agree. These derp guns are akin to shotguns, inaccurate at distance but powerful up close. If you get derped in the face up close then that’s that. Note that WG isn’t nerfing the premium HE shells.

    • Sorry circon, I disagree, he is fine as is, it’s the lack of HP, at low tries that is the problem

    • I like the idea of making the game friendlier for the newbie tiers I through VI. Reducing one-shot kills is sure to keep more new players in the game and would allow them to concentrate more on strategy and tactics and leaving cover. It used to be annoying getting one shot by arty but that was very rare compared to hits from derp gun armed tanks. Extra health points and lower HE damage seems to me to be a good step forward (with appropriate fine tuning).

    • @Edwin Parker there are very few one shot tanks in the game. And its a learning curve to memorize what tank can do that to you. It creates tension and need to strategise.
      The biggest enemy to newcomers is gold ammo. You keep telling newcomers to: angle armor… sidescrape. Get good at those… study Tanks GG and pen values.

      And then a tank that should be able to bounce the enemy in front of him gets penned because he pressed the 2 key and went right through him. It confuses and enrages the newcomers
      Trust me.

  2. literally all the Japanese heavy tanks are atrocious to fight against.
    yes you are right. that’s why they should never have introduced with this combination of above average armor/hp for their tier and with derp guns…
    but this is a problem, that has come up since their introduction partly – and partly due to people with high caliber guns figuring out in this hull-down meta, that standard ammo sucks when you face something you cant pen.

    i play lots of mid tier and yes it is annoying to be one-shot by derp guns of same tier or higher, but it is comparably rare to see people play dedicated derp guns – derp Sherman and derp panzer 4 are iconic meme tanks, and there are really good players who love those, and then tons of copy cats, but most players aren’t that effective with derp guns, because they are unreliable for the unskilled.
    myself, i have started using them more and more, because they can be fun, but i am far from being a master in them.
    in fact when i was grinding the above mentioned tanks and their lines, i used the 76 and 75mm guns and was quite good with them – to the point, where i almost exclusively used ap guns when possible, because they were more accurate, with higher reliable dpm and sniping capabilities. now i started using derp guns from time to time, to mix it up a bit and to try to get the most out of the things i learned about positioning at flanks or the rear of tanks – to do the extra damage.
    You are right, that those one-shots shouldn’t be in the game, but those should be balanced out differently: +1-1 mm and then re-balance tanks against one another and buff the hp of some really low hp tanks up a bit so the can at least survive one shot from a howitzer one tier higher.
    the concept shown by wg here is not the way to go. it dumbs down the game, takes away variety of play-style, and benefits almost nowhere, except in the situations that shouldn’t occur anyway -> super heavy tanks should not have guns with effective he shells and low to mid tier tds should not have so few hp that they get one-shot 95% of the time.

  3. this is just an HE nerf, nothing more nothing less

  4. Two main problems with your thoughts here. Arty IS NOT affected by this rework. And it sounds as if you haven’t played on the sandbox. Play on the sandbox and then update your opinion, because I am darn sure you will see it differently after you do.

  5. KV-Toothles?

  6. We agree to disagree Circon. One of the few fun things left in wot (ie derping) will be gone.

    I’m active on the NA forums and have been vocally making that point

  7. I disagree with you Circ on this one.
    HE shells are the only thing we have when:
    1. Its +2
    2. A hull down Conqueror or any Russian heavy is staring at us. (HE spamm while not damaging them a lot -or at all. Still annoys them enough to consider moving from that place.
    3. Tracking with weaker tank.

    P.s – So you are willing to tell me that KV2 (with out the derp gun) will be even remotely adequate?
    .56 accuracy, 3 shells per minute (B&A and vents & rammer) and 110 pen on its AP. What do you suggest I do in this tank with such shit accuracy ? Shoot the weak spots?

    Tanks that have light armour mostly have something to lean against: great accurate gun, high pen, speed, view range… something.
    There needs to be a balancing factor given how many perks they have over stupid heavy tank with low firing inaccurate gun.
    Just my 2 cents 🙂

  8. What about shooting AP shell at commander’s hatch and getting engine set on fire?

  9. R.I.P KV-2

  10. i get your point and yeah one shotting the starting player base is not a good thing, but the only single reason people went for the KV-2 is to do that occasionaly, like some games in that thing you’ll pen everything with HE other times you just miss or do maybe 100 dmg but thats the fun of it , having a chance of doing large amounts of dmg, like is it better that a Maurbrecher just side scraping and ur there doing 80 dmg meanwhile he just wrecks the entire of your team and you cant shoot under it cause it will do even less

  11. I agree that the current HE mechanics aren’t good for the game, but I don’t think this rework is the solution. The fact that low tier tanks and TDs especially don’t have enough HP doesn’t mean HE shells are the problem. I don’t know what’s happening about buffing the HP on all low tier tanks across the board (perhaps that’s being tested on the sandbox along side these HE changes?), but in my opinion, that’s the solution to low tier tanks that get one-shotted by derp guns, not new HE mechanics.

    Also, it says in the article that arty and anything that gets HESH will remain the same, only regular HE will get reworked, meaning Deathstars will continue one-shotting tier 9 tanks with gold, and arty will still kill your crews. The main reason for the changes as stated in the article is to increase the effectiveness of low caliber HE, making it easier to finish off low HP, reset cap, etc… while reducing the effectiveness of high caliber HE that does massive damage with a single hit (such as the Japanese heavies or the KV-2) while at the same time, reducing the chance of doing 0 damage with a hit, making HE a consistent damage dealer that more or less completely ignores the armor value of the tank you hit. I completely disagree with this, because in my opinion, it makes every tank in the game more like the pre-nerf Type 5 Heavy if they press the 3 key. They don’t do anywhere near as much damage as the Type 5, of course, but they follow the same play style. You don’t need to aim for weakspots, you can’t even aim for the penetration for more damage, you just press number 3, auto aim, and snapshot for easy damage, even if it’s not a lot. All that accomplishes is lowering the skill ceiling of the game, and making damage blocked missions harder, which is a negative change for sure.

    With all due respect, Circon, I fail to see how you missed the part of the article about how arty and HESH won’t be touched by these changes. Did you even read the whole thing before making this video? It’s literally in a highlighted box accented with bright green.

  12. This is positive for the game and makes a lot of sense, I always wondered how an HE shell cannot pass through a wall yet it can pen a tank?? (not HEAT just HE) also derp guns re ridiculous for a game that pretends to have some realism.

    • because it detonate at impact, and explode, to the impact with the wall omg is high explosive ammo is in name

    • and also in real life you can one shoot tanks with light armour using HE ammo so why not in game to ? sometimes you take it, sometamies you give it so is fair

  13. I respectfully disagree. This will make tanks like the m4 and the jumbo completely useless and not fun to play anymore. If you watch quickybaby’s video you see that the m4 has completely lost it’s ability to do damage, but still has the same reload and accuracy. You’re much better off playing another tank with a decent AP gun. Also, derp tanks were able to be somewhat useful against two tier higher heavies, while in the new version you just wait to die without being able to do anything significant in the battle.
    The KV-2 is an hilarious meme tank, but if you look at it’s statistics it’s hardly OP. It’s very vulnerable on its reload and has pretty bad armour. So in that way it’s pretty balanced. The only good thing about this is that the godzilla tanks will be nerfed by it. But there are better ways of doing that.
    I really don’t have any problem with HE in this game the way it is now. I play mostly at tiers V-VI-VII, so the tiers you think have a problem. But I really don’t see the issue. Yes, one shots happen. But not so often it’s a problem. I’m far more frustrated by all the gold spam making my armour useless.

  14. The idea that normal HE shells are only useful for resetting caps or finishing low-health targets is fine. But there should be a different shell type that does counter thin armor, perhaps HESH will still fill that role. As of the dedicated HE vehicles like the KV-2, there has to be a comfortable middle-ground where it consistently does enough damage to justify the super long reload and bad gun handling.

  15. Arty isn’t being touched with this test yet. They are going to look at arty later.

  16. If it goes through there is no reason ever to fire HE. Plus I love the fact that HESH is not effected so my 4005 gets a sweet buff because my paper turret will last much longer while I hit you with 1750

  17. …….. What am I supposed to do with my kv2 now??? Or my T49….. 😥😭😭😭😭😭😖

  18. The only reason I still play wot is the HE memes… I really hate the top tier apcr games so I just chill and most my derps………… Goodbye wot 😒

  19. the worst idea that wg could think…

  20. If you ruin my sherman without doubling damage on its other gun I quit. I don’t need just another irrelevant tank.

  21. Buff for the Skorpion and SU-130.

  22. marc garcia barranca

    Wargaming should make a special HE shell for light tanks.. I think this is the correct way to keep the ebr, m41 90mm, hawk, senlac, etc. usefull

  23. If I think about all the times I’ve been one shot by a HE i can think of about the same amout of games in which I did really good. My perspective is. There isn’t a problem with HE at all. There is a problem with tanks using HE as a stardard shell. Like T10 Japanese Heavy. But why are they nerfing the whole game’s mechanic just for the sake of balancing 2-3 tanks? This change makes no sense at all and I’m not even playing Derpgun tanks. I bet the way they “reworked” these shells went like this: “Nerf dmg and pen” On shit now what do we do? Oh wait these shells still hurt modules a bit call it cap stop shells and push the change. Magnificent, outstanding balancing.

  24. RIP Circon Golf Course Reserve.

  25. Derps are made for fun and giggles, so if you as a KV-85 (the most light armored ruskie) got nuked by a KV-2 is because you deserved it. so No, HE memes should continue. also the Ikea tonks are intended glass cannons because their style of sneaky boomsticks. Also their pen if i’m not mistaken is the lowest of any type of shell ingame, so i don’t see the point of making the HE useless.

    if anybody wants a healtier game then just LIMIT the ammount of gold the player can load on each tank. Believe me it could do A LOT better in higher tiers than making HE just a decorative shell.

  26. Soo good bye to the shit barn??

  27. So what do you do when you can’t pen heavy armor with your AP?

    Because sometimes if you were a tier 8 up against a tier 10, and you couldn’t pen, well you could damage some modules or do a little damage with HE.

    Now it seems you .. are completely ineffective?

  28. I hope they just rework guns like on the KV-2 and 183s’ to be balanced and fun to use instead of being slot machines for clueless people who can’t get damage normally.

    It’s such a meme that people just cry about Wargaming when they are actually addressing things in the game now which have been an issue for years. And these whining nerds haven’t even tested the changes themselves, jeez…

    Great video, cheers.

  29. its called high explosive for a reason

  30. Arty gets fucked again. Why even play it if this gets implemented?

  31. Hope they plan to refund all KV2R owners!

  32. They should remove the pen still but keep the high damage, so that tanks like the KV-2 dont one shot lightly armoured tanks but still do 400+ damage

  33. It’s a bad idea. Everything WG stats that HE will do with these “changes” it can already do if not better. Also this is a major buff to lightly armored tanks, you have to consider all tiers, not just low tiers. There’s a clip of an E100 shooting the FV4005 with HE on the sandbox and only doing 380~ dmg. In what world is that right? There probably should be SOME sort of HE changes, but being smart and knowing you can do more dmg with HE should not be punished.

  34. you are full of shit circonflexes so durp on the E-100 and heavy’s for japan nurf i now you get payd and get stuf from wot

  35. YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE. YOU WERE MEANT TO DESTROY THEM NOT BECOME THEM.

  36. Dreadnought's Nightmare

    I hope this receives more adjustments. I was so happy watching the tears of hulldown S Conq’s when i farm them with HE-100 T.T

  37. This game is becoming more and more noob friendly each of us must to learn everything about this game but now everyone crying for newbies …. 6 years trained for nothing

  38. You are mixing HEAT and HE. HEAT is special ammo and not affected by the HE nerf. Im on the test server, and sop far it seems that they are nerfing fun out of the game. Also you are forgetting about the HP buff that all tanks have gotten as part of the Normal/special ammo rework. And no, HE does not do damage all the time at the moment on the test server. I can barrely track someone with it atm.

  39. My thoughts: Nerf HE pen change the formula from 0,5 to 0,3

  40. People will just spam HEAT in their derp tanks now.

  41. This company is run by fucktards.

  42. Hey, I’m no idiot… I totally planned to pen that T54 in the side of the turret with my Fv4005 yesterday.

  43. Just tested it out on sandbox, didn’t work how I expected, I thought it would be consistant damage but in practice my M4 was doing 10-50 damage to a KV1 turret so I just loaded the gold.

  44. i also kinda like the idea of removing the dumbass bingo lottery aspect called “will i connect and pen this next shot in my derp kv2 and give nuclear deletion to this tier 5 td sitting in the distance on Mines map”.. even tho’ i had a such great funny mood-lifting time watching you golf with low tier derpguns lol 😛 good thing i never was a fan of derp gunning, i hate the fact that i need to spin the wheel of luck&rng before every shot with a derp gun ever since i started to care about my progress in the game. but then again, this change will be pointless if WG won’t do anything about the gold shells of the derps..

  45. Yeah ok, Hellcat one-shot by KV2 that needs line of sight: bad. Hellcat one-shot by M44 from the other side of the map: is ok comrade. Working as intended.

    This game is so fucked and the population decline on the NA speaks volumes Too bad WG doesn’t give a shit about NA and caters only to Russia.

  46. I still bet you will still get HE hits for 0 damage !!

  47. I agree that removing one shot derp against paper armour tanks is a good thing.
    But then it should be enough to remove armour penetration and halving potential damage. (Or just make armour penetration 1 for all HE shells) You still get huge damage rolls against lightly armoured vehicles as they have almost no damage reduction from armour.
    However, in WG’s proposal HE damage is reduced even further…. And that I don’t understand! There is no reason to nerve HE in general. They claim that they want to make HE from a 76mm gun more useful… I don’t see anything in their proposals that helps for that!

  48. All this change will mean is that people shoot more premium ammo. Period.

  49. All the problems are with the low tier derps. This kills the entire SU152 line. Kills the big guns UN german TDS. Kills the E100. Etc. Etc. Instead of HE people will just push 2. And now you have to carry three times as much HE to dig out all the hull down over armored tanks which is the current meta. Utter bullshit.

  50. Another arty nerf…. sign me up 🙂

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