Mingles with Jingles Episode 444

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Source: The Mighty Jingles

Cryptocrime! Prizewinning AI generated art! Why “we didn’t have enough crew” is an admission of guilt, not an excuse! We’re really getting into it this week.

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50 Comments:

  1. Hey jingles last week John Oliver on last week Tonight made an entire episode about this ai subject you should YouTube it

  2. 21:30 – ship fires – you are absolutely correct.

  3. Øistein Jelmert Skjolddal

    Remember that AI generated immages are currently public domain. So if you plan on doing anything comercial with it, youd better think twice because everyone can legaly plagarize it. You dont own it.

  4. AI-Generated Art? There can be a lot of angles to look at in this debate, and I feel compelled to post my opinion about the largest angle here in this comment thread (for some reason).
    What is art?
    Its defined as art (noun): the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power’

    Bit of a tangent here but I promise it gets back to the AI:
    Are Bonsai trees art?
    humans didnt make the tree, but humans do parse down, prune, and trim the tree into something that may make you consider nature, and make you feel at peace. It can have emotional power, and could be said to be the result of the application of ‘creative skill’.

    Now, is our Bonsai tree comparable to Jason Allen using an AI to generate and then tweak its artwork before finally running it through a photoshop program?
    We can definitely appreciate the image for its beauty and emotional power, and Jason did apply his creative skill by choosing what words to input to the algorithm.
    How is that any different, except instead of a tree, its a human-made algorithm?
    Jason may claim that art is dead, dude.
    But instead, his piece caused me to follow this line of thinking, and I definitely felt some emotions while doing just that.

    How is it not art?

  5. The thing is that, these images are not generated out of nothing.
    Those Programs use what is already there, and all that is already there is made by humans, so not only does that Jason dude NOT have a point.
    He´s also calling it an AI and this term is already being HEAVILY watered down from what we actually understand “Intelligence” to be, but definitely watered down from what we know an AI to be from all kinds of Movies.

    As long as a human has to give any input into the program telling it what to do so that the outcome is in any tiny fraction predictable, it is not an AI.

    If you tell a child “Draw me something” there is a VASTLY different process going on then if you tell that to one of these “AI”
    A TRUE AI could be creative, anything less will always only be able to mimic and copy what already exists and never create anything really new. Because it is literally being told what to do, not just with a prompt, but in it´s most basic code, it´s not AI

  6. sub brief did a video a few months ago on the Bonham Richard. there were failures at multiple levels. when civilian fire fighters arrived from separate departments, one department kicked out the other, despite the other department being the only ones that could refill air bottles on sight. when other ships sent their teams over to fight the fire, the had them put on the full kit before they went over including mask, so they used up half their air just getting there and were hot and sweaty from the walk. the person in charge of the skeleton crew wasn’t on the ship and couldn’t be reached for hours. the senior person at the ship was checking everything himself instead of delegating to his crew, so he couldn’t be found when needed. none of the available crew knew the best way to the fire so the firefighters took a long way, wasting time and air supply. the failures keep going.

  7. Very interesting topics for a gaming vids producer 😏

  8. PRegarding the fire. I’m in agreement with you Jingles.

    I’m a fourth gen USN veteran. My late Father was a lifer and did 20 years in the sub force. I remember the level of responsibility Dad talked about that service personnel had when ships were in port for refit and modernization.

    The Navy always maintains a cooperative presence with civilian contractor shipyards in the construction and dry dock evolutions.

    At any rate, this loss is a colossal failure on all levels. Not the least of which is leadership taking responsibility as leadership requires total accountability whether leaders were present or not. We are seeing an erosion of that moral integrity at current unfortunately.

    There’s zero reason for five days of burning to take place aboard a modern capital warship. Especially since we have so few LHDs and the loss of one of these heavy units basically mission kills a major strategic capability and drastically reduces our geopolitical power projection and also reduces our ability to support our allies.

    This whole situation smells too much like the Iowa controversy when she had that turret detonation.
    The Navy tried to blame it on an unhappy sailor. Hmmmm that playbook wreaks of something familiar.

    I remember a report about five years prior to to the LHD-6 incident. It was a news article about multiple fires that broke out on five different ships in the same port.

    This pattern means there is a critical leadership failure that requires immediate course correction. Also some command level careers need to be deepsixed for being incompetent.

  9. I tried that midjourney AI generated too, what i saw till from a few weeks ago the AI has trouble to create things like moonshine into picutres, but it will probably learn gets fixed in time soon, that point beside it really creates some very good looking pictures.

    Everyone still can try it out for free on midjourney over their discord, you get a limit for that but to test it out and see the results is amazing.

  10. Regarding AI art: I don’t see the big difference to other occupations. People might have been miffed because the job-market for professional carters disappeared 100+ years ago, but nowadays we’ve all accepted it. You could also make a living doing lots of non-complex computations 100 years ago, calling yourself a computer. I don’t see many people doing that nowadays.

    Artists thought they couldn’t be replaced because “creativity” is something very special that humans could do but computers can’t. Guess what, chess players thought the same until about 25 years ago.

  11. Scottishlandwarrior

    I just don’t get humans in general we are so willing to give up securiy for the sake of advancement if this E currency is so easy to steal then why do it at all.

  12. Could the developers of an art AI try to “pre-copyright” any work their AI produces and demand royalties or C&D if somebody uses an AI art piece in a commercial enterprise e.g. book cover or office lobby setups?

    Granted they’d need to ensure that every item their AI generated includes a hidden “tell tale” or watermark, and create another AI whose sole function was to scour online marketplaces for pieces of art that had it, but if there’s $$ in it somebody will try.

  13. ” The cat is put among the pigeons “, LOL I like that one, I see how many times that little ditty can be used in our everyday lives. As a U.S. Navy veteran who was given every chance to learn the best I could hope to do, and then use it as a ‘Professional Volunteer’ Firefighter for small communities on the Oregon coast, I did this as it was the ‘responsible’ thing to return the taxes spent on my training, and at the same time continue to serve the people that want to know that when they have a bad time they can get the help needed, in as short a time as it might take. The Admiral is right that it IS the Navies responsibility and if the ‘Need to do’ is given the time it needs those that work in the ‘dock yards’ need to be Navy veterans so they ALL have enough basic firefighting training that the ship has an ‘over abundance’ and this will not happen unless that fire is started by a ‘Nefarious Plan’ and takes the best of NCIS to find those involved and see they all get what they deserve, ( Leroy Jethro Gibbs ) would hang them all from the ‘Yard Arm’ to obtain the full confession. LOL.

  14. A video published on YT by Digital Engine has discussed how A.I. could kill 90% of humanity. and the main points were;
    destroying food sources… this appears to be happening recently across Nth America/Europe as there have been reports of a ton of food processing plants that have been destroyed over the last few years
    Controlling the climate…. fires, floods, earthquakes (‘climate change’)
    manipulate the weather… it has been well known since the 50’s that this has been a reality
    A.I. is imo further along than the public realise, also,
    I tend to view instances of gross negligence like the fire aboard USS Bonhomme Richard as intentional, am sure if someone dug deep enough there will be a reason why this happened as there is a history of catastrophes over human history where a tragedy has benefitted an individual or group of individuals

  15. Do diligence, in the United States Navy…well let’s be honest it doesn’t really happen.

  16. 21:50 I´d say i trust most Military Organizations with what they say about as far as a Sailor can swim in the Gulf of Leyte without getting attacked by sharks.
    Especially the Murican Navy.

  17. Jingles, as a recent US Navy veteran, I agree with you on your stance about ol’ Bonnie. I was stationed on the submarine tender USS Emory S Land, and when we heard about BHR burning down, we were in transit to drydock in Vallejo, CA at Mare Island. We had a skeleton crew as well, but we drilled every single day on minor fires and every week at the minimum on a major/uncontrolled fire. Duty section of the day was responsible for safeguarding the ship, even if the “Yard Birds” were given official responsibility towards fighting fires and flooding. Firewatches were posted everywhere there was hot work conducted, all personnel not on watch roved the ship at set intervals to scout for fires or floods, and we stepped up our drills and training periods to compensate for the increased risk.

  18. Does it matter if you use words in a system someone else produced for two weeks or move a brush with paints that someone else produced for two weeks to produce the image that you wanted to create?

  19. AI generated art, siri, Alexa…. our new machine overlords will soon launch their takeover…. for the betterment of mankind….

  20. Art has always been something that I can’t fathom the ‘value’ of (I don’t mean that I don’t see the value of art as a whole, I mean the difference in $ value put on a piece of artwork based on who produced it), I have seen ‘art’ on shows such as Antiques Roadshow, where the expert puts a ‘value’ on a piece, but adds that ‘if it can be attributed to xxx artist then it would be yy times higher in value, that to me insinuates that the artists talent is not valued, near as much as who they are. As an example, I have a painting of a river gorge in the NT (Australia), that is by an ‘unknown’ (it is signed, but the artist is not ‘famous’) artist, it is only worth a few tens of dollars, but it is the equal (or better) of many ‘artworks’ I have seen hanging in museums or galleries, with ‘valuations’ of 100x (or more), just because they are by a ‘famous’ artist who does not necessarily have any more talent.

  21. You tell im jingles.

  22. Jingles, would you be able to cover Mechwarrior 5 again? Many DLCs and patches later, it’s pretty decent

  23. Christopher Johnson

    I used to live in Izmir, Turkey. The Lira is notorious for losing its value. Right before my family moved to Turkey, the Lira experienced a huge crash. Their government did some kind of reset. So when I moved there in in 1989, one US dollar would get you about 1,800 Lira. When I left 2 years later in 1991, one US dollar would get you about 3,500 Lira if I recall correctly. By 1992 it was nearly 8,000 Lira per dollar. This cycle seemed to happen repeatedly. I was too young to understand why however. Anyhow, the story in the beginning of the video does not shock me. People of the world are greedy.

  24. I think the big shift here is that AI reduces the amount of raw skill nessicery to be able to produce a piece of art that is able to make an impression. Now and in the future, the role of an artist will ever more become one of a conduit between ideas and execution, which in the past was dictated by craftsmanship, and which now will become more and more dictated by imagination. I think this is a good thing.

    For professional artists also, these tools will just be a force multiplier. Just because people can now produce more art more easily, does not take away from other artists. People are not nessicerily being pushed out. It just makes it so that everyone’s capacity to create quality can increase, and the standards of quality will probably increase too.

    Being an artist has never really been about having a monopoly on the craftsmanship required to make meaningful art – it’s been about being that conduit between your imagination and a meaningful result. And yeah so this will just be an added tool in the toolkit of artists to create ever more meaningful art.

    Not sure how well i expressed my position there, but yeah. I’m a 3D artist so i’ve been thinking about this quite a bit.

  25. The problem with AI generated art is that the AIs are “trained” on hunderds of thousands of existing art pieces, without the artists consent, regenerating patterns that the algorithm considers most likely to be similar to what the text promter wants to see. You can even sometimes see patterns that resemble individual artists watermarks if you request something in their style.
    If you want to be polemic about it, it’s a very sophisticated blender, helping plagiarism.
    Machines are (not yet at least) able to actually work creative. The AI generated art is always copying, mixing and recreating what’s already there.
    In turn it will put a lot of the artists its trained on out of work, moving a large worldwide market into the hands of a dozend or so american tech companies.
    This will, in the long rund affect everybody from illustrators (it already does), video game concept artists , to photographers (the bes AIs are very close to photorealism), and film makers and everyone working in those fields, lighting and sound crews on photo and films sets, makeup artists, stylists, actors.
    After that narrators of audio books, translators, call center agents, drivers and so on.
    Considering how slow governments are in even considering UBI, and how little I want to be dependand on a bunch of politicians to being able to survive, I get a sick feeling in my stomach when I think about what happens to the global economy when hunderds and thousands or in the very long run millions of people will have to move to different fields, competing for less and less jobs.

  26. Fantastic wrap up of whose fault it was

  27. The YouTube channel SubBrief does a great video on the Bonhomme Richard.

  28. /facepalm at the whole ‘art is dead: AI won’ What a useless wanker.

  29. What’s the difference between using Mid Journey or Photoshop?
    They’re both software tools to create digital products.
    You still have to have an artistic eye to use either.

  30. About 20 years ago I was working for a firm that analyzed data from foreign countries. The first thing you do when you receive an external data file is make sure the number look right. We got one data file from Turkey. I looked at the money data and couldn’t make any sense out of it. Was the file corrupt? On researching currency exchange, I discover that the reason the numbers didn’t make any sense to me was the one US dollar was worth 1.6 MILLION Turkish lira.

  31. I thought the USS Bonham Richard was a case of arson?

  32. Was the art beautiful and worth viewing and considering? Then who cares who created it?

  33. Question… How is it legal for the AI websites to use copyrighted images to create its art?

  34. Steven Colbert did a video about AI generated art.

  35. AI – Artificial intelligence yet another fad for now. It have zero intelligence. It’s Collections of filters, object recognition programs, mosaic/stitching programs, “evolution” and chaos algorithms etc. And they are old, 90’s and some are decades or so older. Computing power and memory was a limit, system (powerful or cheep enough) not existed to run big program/algorithm and store input/output and data in between.
    Chess “AIs” existed before they beat master human player. Soon after memory became cheep and lager enough to store needed moves/step, it won against master chess player.
    Plenty of people sucks at “classic arts” but creating great stuff by using CG, mixing, programing/algorithmic skills… and “Art” is in the eye of the beholder anyway.

  36. When there’s a new technology, there is always a defining case.

  37. Skynet is coming for us.

  38. As to the Bonhomie Richarde, in last week you mentioned how cursory the fire drills were. This was justified by the “advanced automatic fire fighting system” already installed. However, while being serviced, they turned off the automatic system instead of doubling fire fighting as you mention this week.

  39. Excellent someone f@#ked up the best answer for some time so navy dept or dockies someone’s got egg on there face I too enjoyed the last episode but this was awesome

    I’m using it as an example at work 🙂

  40. I can see Marvel using AI

  41. Since some people in this comment section do not understand how AI generated art works these days, here is a quick rundown.
    Around two years ago, the programs that created this kind of art would see your keywords and then look through libraries and randomly mesh together existing images, perhaps changing them a bit, and then present a few variations. Most of the results were bad. That was two years ago. Since then, these programs have become much, much better. Especially within the last six months, several have been written that are incredibly good at generating art. And these do not “steal” art, these generate new art.
    What these programs do is look through many, many terabytes of data of pictures and images with specific tags, which helps it learn patterns, themes, styles and anything that could be useful to create a new piece of art. E.g. the program will learn thousands of variations of what a “red hat” is, after which it can generate many more red hats based on its code. These algorithms compress these algorithms into a few gigabytes of data, which can, based on your keywords, generate AI art independent of any database. I.e. the programs do not look through a database and “steal”, they have learned the content of a database and reduced what they learned into a relatively small file that doesn’t need to be actively linked to a database.
    Of course, some of the generated art may look incredibly similar to real art or pictures. This can be due to coincidence or a bad database, where little variety for a specific keyword is given. If you use “smiling woman wearing red hat in the style of Leonardo da Vinci”, you will get many different smiling women in red hats generated in a way that looks like da Vinci drew the art. If you write “Mona Lisa wearing a red hat in the style of Leonardo da Vinci”, you will get a bunch of very similar art, because Mona Lisa is very specific and limited.
    Can AI generated art infringe copyright? Yes, definitely. If the program had a bad database when it was learning, it may generate art that is heavily based on somebody else’s. Do they commonly do so? No, because they are trained to know what constitutes a “red hat” and generate art of it, not to go into a search engine and copy paste a red hat.
    And if you think that “inspired by” is the same as copyright infringement, then I hope you are able to think of and draw a red hat that doesn’t have any elements of any other drawn red hat, because otherwise, you are infringing upon someone’s copyright.
    And lastly, I agree that AI art should not be included in human art contests, outside of special categories. And yeah, these programs suck for artists.

  42. What I think this AI generated stuff will actually do is remove some of the pretentious BS accumulated over the years in the art world, so we don’t see any more crap like 3 lines and a smudge on a canvas or actual trash smeared over a wall praised like some sort of masterpiece. I’ve seen plenty of talented young folks sidelined by pretentious critics who get rich by promoting insane sh*t in a well established industry-like network and tell the other 99.9% of the population that we don’t know how to appreciate art.

  43. The other issue with the Bonhomme Richard was that it was arson. So the fire was likely set to cause as much damage as possible and defeat fire fighting attempts. There were also reports that the Navy crew involved with the refit was working under unpleasant or abusive conditions, which had led to other issues. So, onion layers leading to disaster.

    As for art being pressed by technology, it has always been a problem. I am/was a semi professional photographer, who has showed and sold his work. The proliferation of cellphone cameras has led to people more and more arguing for reductions in sale prices and even asking for the location of the subject so they could go take the picture themselves. Or they just photograph the photograph. It was always annoying, but it’s also the nature of art: the value is limited until it’s not.

  44. Really. We in the Navy all know how firing fighting work when your trying to prevent a fire. BUT when a individual goes and start a fire as a saboteur in the largest compartment on a LHA where linen was being stored, your argument start to fall apart. By the time the fire was reported the ship was inundate in smoke though out the ship. confusion had set in and the critical moment to control the fire was lost. Not to down play what your saying but it still come down to 1 individual started a fire where the most damage would be caused. Stating the US Navy fire fighting skills are subpar is BS.

  45. The fact that the fire on the Bonhomme Richard got so out of control is due to a screwup in the chain of responsibility. Believing that it was the dockyard’s responsibility, the commanding officer of the ship ordered all of his crew off. They were standing on the docks watching it burn. The civilian firefighters on the other hand needed the crew’s help as Jingles pointed out last week. They didn’t have the knowledge of the ship needed to effectively fight the fire. They made a few attempts but were ordered back due to unsafe conditions. By the time anyone got around to taking control of the situation and coordinating efforts it was too late, the blaze was out of control.

    The top command staff of the ship were all reprimanded for failing to fight the fire, and the admiral in charge of the fleet was also scolded for failing to mitigate against the complete lack of oversight that led to the disaster. It’s pretty clear from this that the US Navy agrees with Jingle’s assessment and considers it a colossal f-up at the command officer level.

  46. Looks like someone watched John oliver last week

  47. Love watching jingles drunk, ,means I can watch them twice😏

  48. That Midjourney story reminds me of one of the “news stories” in Cyberpunk 2077 where an A.I. won a prestigious award for a story it created (Under the Apple Tree?).

  49. 10:55 And more power to him. The…”art”..nowadays. A bunch of abstract lines colored in by a kid with daddy issues ought not to be called art. That clay pressed into some aerodynamic drop-shape sculpture…polluting the squares and plaza’s of cities built by people greater than that low-life that shat on a pedestal..and has the audacity to call it art.

  50. I didn’t catch the tail-end of your video last week discussing the Bonhomme Richard, but I will chip in with my 2 cents:

    I was stationed on the USS Nassau, a Tarawa-class ‘gator that is a very close analog to the Wasp-class ‘gators like the one that burned down. If you put them side-by-side, you would be hard pressed to tell them apart (which happened when we’re parked next to the Wasp, as drunken sailors coming back from liberty trying to board the wrong ship).

    Amphibious ships (“gator freighters”) are the lowest tier ships in the fleet. They get just enough money and materials to keep them from sinking in port and are crewed by misfits and short-timers. The ones that aren’t outright lemons when they are commissioned (and therefore sit in drydock for most of their service period) are worked to the point of failure and beyond, with little time for drydock repairs and refit. Morale is nonexistent.

    I strongly suspect that the skeleton crew assigned to the destroyed ‘gator realized that they could get reassigned to a REAL ship and put in just enough effort to look like they were fighting the fire to not get court martialed, and let the fucker burn. It’s a big goddamned ship (WW II escort-carrier sized, at the very least… we were parked next to a carrier at one point, and we could stand on the flight deck of the Nassau and look DOWN on the JFK’s flight deck), so 5 days of fire-fighting sounds like a lot of work to make sure you go on to a tender or oiler once the ship burns down to the frame members, but I would not underestimate a motivated damage control party determined to not control the damage.

    Anyway, that’s my perspective.

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