Russian Bias At Top Tier

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Source: Spookston

I know I talked about tier Russia a week ago, but a rather interesting development has popped out. A post to the War Thunder subreddit displayed that the internal armor plate surrounding the of Russian MBTs did not produce spall, while internal armor of other nations did. Even Chinese tanks with essentially the same had their plates produce spall. Is that true? Is this clear cut evidence of Russian bias?

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  1. I currently having an inquiry with Gaijin as to why the plates don’t spall. While I believe they’re steel IRL, it’s possible that it’s an aramid spall liner. There are also a surprising amount of comments which seemed to entirely miss the point of the video. I thought I made it explicitly clear that I do not think Russian tanks being buffed unrealistically is a good thing, and advocated for the changes to be reversed. I’m sorry if this is harsh, but I feel that saying it is Russian bias because “Bias is when something is favored unfairly, and Russian tanks are being favored unfairly” is being obtuse. The term “Russian bias” in War Thunder has always referred to *nationalistic* bias, IE Russian vehicles being buffed purely because the devs are Russian. That is what the video is talking about. Top tier Russian tanks are being favored because it’s monetarily efficient to cycle through making one nation extremely powerful at top tier. Players are lured to buy premium vehicles and time by dangling this performance over their heads, saying “This nation is the best, you don’t want to be on the losing side do you?” This same scenario has been mirrored before with other nations. Upon its introduction, the M1 Abrams was incredibly overpowered and was modeled in such a way that it practically could not be ammo racked. The AH-1Z was completely uncontested when it was added two updates later. Favor shifted towards Germany after that.They received the 2A5, 2A6, and F&F PARS missiles. The 2A5 and 2A6 had some very questionable DM modeling which made them stupidly strong, and they didn’t receive true equals until recently. I shouldn’t have to elaborate on how broken Germany was, it’s recent enough that everyone should remember. Now Russia is in the spotlight. All nations had win rates in excess of 70% during their dominance, and would you believe it, just a few BRs lower their teams would always be filled with swarms of rank 6 premiums. XM1 spam, L44 spam, TURMS spam, they all have the same root cause. Screaming “Russian bias” is making the leap to the least likely conclusion and it poisons any discussion about balancing top tier. It makes anyone calling for Russian tanks to be nerfed look like a conspiracy theorist.

    • @Sebastian Cizmarov It is a bias. That favors Russia. It is Russian bias. I’m not aware of any other tech trees getting special artifical buffs in the coding. And its not the first ti.e Gaijin has been caught doing this.

    • @HuntforAndrew A bit late, but as a strf9040 bill player I have found a way around the complete lack of post pen damage from tow2bs, if you aim at the edges of the turret of a t72/t80/t90/ztz99 (and other similar tanks with the ammo in the same spot) instead of the center the jet will 99% of the time hit the ammo whilst hitting in the middle will only take out the breach and maybe a crewmember.

    • Did you produce this yourself? However, you can’t play for Russia in the top at all !!! Still instakill. Retreat from the battle? Impossible. Turn the turret faster than US tanks at B.R 7.7 maybe the same. All associals shoot at cannon breech. Russian tanks are on the top absolutely fucking pain. I have been playing Russian tanks since closed beta, because hundreds of people only played for Germany and it was impossible to join the battle, so I preferred to play Russia and with some exceptions the nation is completely unplayable if it does not meet MM and people with poorly folded tank lines.

    • yes first battle and i will get cannon breech from merkava as if he had a leaser

    • Юрий Полтавец

      Read what they write on the Russian forum about the alleged bias towards Russian technology, tanks in particular. Everything is quite the opposite. There is no bias towards the Russian nation. This is just the whining of Westerners who are used to being treated differently. The developers themselves said that there is a bias towards Western technology and they are working on it. But everything is as it was, and remains. Nor should you resent. (Почитай что пишут на русском форуме, про якобы уклон в сторону русской техники, танков в частности. Всё совсем наоборот. Нет никакого уклона в сторону русской нации. Это только нытьё западников, которые привыкли к особому отношению к себе. Сами разработчики говорили, что есть перекос в сторону западной техники и они над этим работают. Но всё как было, так и осталось. Ни вам возмущаться.)

  2. Saying that “Russian bias is obtuse” because some Chinese tanks also have this problem, is obtuse. You don’t see this problem in the Taiwanese part of the line. Only in the Russian variants. On one hand, you’re right in saying that they’re not doing it to “prove” Russian tanks are better. On the other hand, the Russians don’t need any more help. Their Helis can wipe games on their own. The TURMS is impenetrable except in a full uptier. Spalling may seem like a “small issue”, but those fragments are the difference between a kill and being killed often enough. I know that in an uptier, if one of my shells does pen I’d like it to actually do damage.

  3. well, that sucks yikes for the snail

  4. On explanation could be a realistic one:
    Sometimes during their production T-90 received armor plates around the carousel based on field records and lessons learned.
    Chinese might have added that too for the same reasons.
    However early models of carousels (T-64, T-72, T-80) only had sheet metal (although thickish) “splash shields”.

    Armor plate spalls, sheet metal doesn’t.

    • thesovietarmourblog has a section dedicated to carousel protection in part1 of their t-72 article.
      Highly reccomended. Probably the most detailed public info in English available anywhere.

  5. Honestly by the time I’m able to grind for anything T-7 we would probably have T-8 tanks available because I just go my first t3 vehicle

  6. Cybernetic Argument Creator

    Misrepresenting a claim and then debating against the misrepresentation of the claim. Is there a name for this type of behavior? Strawdude phallusy? Crawdad Falsey? Tip of my tongue here.

  7. News_Internationale

    “Russian bias”, but still a notable lack of Soviet, Russian, and Ukrainian wheeled armoured vehicles in the game.

  8. Never been bothers by a comoanh making money, its when they sacrifice the enjoyment of the game for money thats the problem.

  9. There’s no “bias” Russians just generally seem to have numerous unrealistic and sometimes unfair advantages over most other factions…

    4:01 almost like bias can be profitable, I wish you could connect the dots here.

  10. LMAO, Russian top tier tanks are medriocre trust me. NATO tanks survive many bullshit sideshots due to broken spalling, That’s so stupid ffs

  11. Dude i have bounced all kinds of top tier shells on that stupid composite armor on the side of T series tanks . Cant count how many times i want to uninstall wt because of it.

  12. How am I supposed to joke about bias if you go and confirm it!?

    That’s not how you play this game!

  13. Russian Autoloaders ( and maybe chinese ones ) have a armor plate surrouding the ammunition to act like a floor for the crew and bit of protection, so the spalling not damaging any other component is basic realism, ( also the russian media even stated that most T models turret explosions are caused by ammo out of the carrousel, not in it, so much so they added the ammo on the back of the T-90 turret in the M version ) people are crying like this too because NATO tanks with blowout doors rarely work and most of the time explode the entire tank ( rightfully so, the ammo pierce the door and open a gap for the fire to spread )

    • what about when my blowout gets shots from the side and still incenerates my tank instantly. Its not working as inteded, the shit literally has a random factor to actually blow out instead of nuking my crew

    • @Royal Boogie Go see the replay and try to see if the APFSDS opened a gap in the blowout panel, even it its just a small one the game already considers to be lethal. And even after that if you see no problem then go to the gaijined row, where everyone that played this game is on

      I never in my life playing in top tier or seeing videos have ever seen a Western MBT getting destroyed just by hitting the backturret ammo, and I have already seen a APDS go directly through a Tiger II ammo and still not getting blow up

  14. All top tier Russian tanks have the same weakspot, (open driver port) shoot there and its insta ammorack. If you kill one you can kill all of them.

  15. they have the best Figher, the best Helicopters, a 2019 terminator called BMP-2M at 8.7 and the most Top MBT,s… yes no russian bias to see here, move along

  16. Very well, you dont know only a fuel tank with an armored backplate will produce a large number of secondary fragments, the t80/72/90 and ztzs none of them have armored backplates. You are not even willing to verify the question on LEC and type10 before rummaging the vehicle file (And you are dare to show ztz96’s fuel tank PRODUCED secondary shatters in you video)😁 Okey, keep doing this and tell everyone no American tank IS BALANCED, other countries have too many OP vehicles🥰

  17. Apparently in Russia depicting the patriotic war as “untrue.” Is illegal and Russia also had a propaganda department dedicated to the t34 until 2012.

    Not sure if that’s why russian bias is a thing I am just guessing here.

  18. This is exactly why I stopped playing war thunder until gaijen pulls their heads out of their ass’s…

  19. There is no Russian Bias? Sure, its by accident that the PT-76-57 is Curbstomping everything in its BR right now.
    There is clearly Russian Bias.

  20. Yeah, a game that sponsored pro-Russian terrorists in Ukraine definitely doesn’t have Russian bias.

  21. Crybabies

  22. Putin thinks you are right. There is no Russian bias.

  23. It’s pretty sure now … It’s Russia bias AND Chinese bias. Russian and Chinese companies own Gaijin.

    • I was saying that too, before I’ve started to play USSR, now I’m thinking that German is behind everything!

    • @ICertI German has the best stuff tho so they are not the ones behind. The only thing they are being behind is jets. The issue here is the no spelling armor is bias armor

    • @brian 5 That just dumb fuck reasoning. Lets say Germany had better tanks in WW2(lets dont take that shitty reliability in account 😉 ), but Soviets had numbers, so we should play 3:1 because of reality? What about M247, what a clusterfack in reality, but one of the best AA fort it’s tier. This is game and it should be balanced somehow.
      I don’t know about spaling, maybe they did it because of carrosel auto loader is one shot firework anyway.

    • @ICertI I don’t think it’s dumb. You think metal should act like paper or not? And if you think it’s balancing because you think Russian and Chinese tanks explode too much then it is IMO a dumb fuck bias balance reasoning because all these tanks are designed as is. All I asked for is that metal act like metal when a penetration rod penetrates through creating hot liquid fragments. If you say they did it because the auto loader explodes too much then it must be blamed on the shitty tank design just like how many tanks can die from machine gun fire.

    • @ICertI the Tiger already vs Tanks that is capable of killing it and Germany already has the best armor and penetration in WW2 gameplay why do you think it’s stupid but it’s okay for you to use the numbers game in Warthunder. Are you saying just because Germany was outnumbered we should dismiss no spalling armor on communist tanks for balance? Just wondering where the connection is here on historical accuracy here vs in game engine physics.

  24. RBias is real

  25. 90% of the time I play Russian top tier I get 10+ kills and more with the mig 27k in tank RB or using the KA 50 or 52… this lineup id enough for one person to win the match… I’ve done it and I’ve seen countless others win it like this…the mig 27k will kill ya without u being able to radar track or see where it is because its too far lmao the ka 52,50 are both already cancer so yeh the t80bvm and its cousins are fkn insane I think I bounce everything lol.

    I also play US top tier and Germany top tier…they both are great but do not have the umph that the Russians do in this game and its a fact. Most kills I get is 5 for these countries and trust me I’ve played both passive and aggressive in the game to try and find a sweet spot but it dsnt work as well. Once there is a 27k up in tank rb its usually game over for ur SPAA and front line tanks capping.

  26. You can also make the arguement that the carousel is a secluded tight spot with armor above and below the carousel. If you shot more of an open space you can see fragments go everywhere however the roof and floor of the carousel armor prevents any fragments grow going up. Making the round mainly take the forefront ammunition. From what I can understand, protection analysis / firing at tanks shows me that fragments that are useless in damage doesn’t spring up much what so ever. It could mean that there are fragments from the shell entering the carousel however since these fragments would only get caught by spall liner armor, they aren’t worth showing. Inbefore someone says “what about the gray fragments”, those are caught Manu outside the tanks and fragments exiting the vehicle.

  27. I will never forget the weeks and weeks when IS7 freaks flooded the servers…
    I stopped playing wt for about 6 months until it calmed a little bit down 😅
    Ru bias at its finest

  28. The thing is that this isn’t actually russian bias. There might be russian bias, but a vast majority of this issues actually comes down to a hillarious fluke:

    Every nation has a particular design phiosophy, and the russian design philosophy, which comes down to low silhoutte, a lot of armor and very little concern for crew comfort, just translates to very strong vehicles in a game. Western design philosophy, which is better IRL in many ways, simply doesn’t translate as well into games since crew comfort isn’t being simulated.

  29. Me who can’t get to T5:

    “I wonder how the top tier is doing?”

  30. Spookston you should check out the hull rotation speeds of Russian tanks compared to everyone elses at almost every BR.

  31. WTF are these bullshit clips of thermals just seeing straight through smoke

  32. So much RNG with top tier tanks I went to play only top tier aviation instead.

  33. EMORTAL ELITE Gaming

    1 hellfire got a side hot on russian spaa and it only turned a guy yellow and thats it. another hit a t-80 and did nothing. i ammoracked a t-80 and nothing happened

  34. I think the fact american high tier matching has Germany, Russia and China on the same team over half the time and the US gets maybe UK and Japan is the problem. Germany needs to be split into 3 factions. That would solve 90% of high tier complaints. NG, EG and WG with EG and WG being high tier nations only

  35. There is no bias; I died all the same using any vehicles. Getting one shotted.

  36. russian bias does not exist but german bias does

  37. they are trying to make putin proud lol

  38. fuel tank eats spall , if you look closly you see red dots on fuel tank , those are spalls , plus Russian tanks are 99% dead in a successful penetration, it either hits ammo explodes tank or hits fuel and explode tank , so the fact that fuel tank eats all shrapnel isnt really important, tanks are dead by that point when rounds passes fuel tank reaches ammo which all around the tank

  39. I love how Spookston keeps telling us the Russian Bias does not exist while dropping a nuke playing the Russian tanks

  40. Who the fuck plays china?

  41. Gaijin sells some OP vehicles while that vehicles is hyped. When comes nerf.
    Case: g.91r/3. It was a monster against ground forces, there were 2 premium slots in German and Italian trees (quite expensive GE slots) and then boom! Nord missiles got NERF. Explosive mass were reduced threefold.
    Russian active armor right now is the same case. It sells TURMS packages.

  42. Playing Russia any BR is like playing easy mode. Switched to Russian tanks from American tanks it’s an absolute cakewalk.

  43. The main reason russia is superior at top tier is a better lineup I don’t get what’s surprising about that, it has been the same for years now…

  44. the Russian mania for greatness

  45. This does not address the fact the T-90 20mm plate does not spall for ZERO reason.

  46. “Russian tanks are clearly dominating at top tier, and there is some weird shit going on with their armor mechanics…”
    *2 Minutes Later*
    “I don’t think there’s any Russian bias at top tier…”

    Fuckin what?

  47. То, что показывают, думают и говорят даже иностранные игроки о гайдзинах. Это просто позор – Гайдзинам! Ани – патриоты русские. А точнее и вернее нужно сказать, что Гайдзины это команда каких то предателей Родины! Пусть они в аду горят за это. Привет им там, от всех патриотов и любителей советской и русской техники. Чтоб их черти в аду за это вертели и жарили. За все наши страдания, и напрасные старания! И что б в этой жизни им эти деньги – поперёк горла встали. А автору ролика – лайк ! Он правду говорит.
    / Вот например за что – 3:50

  48. “fuel explosion will destroy it anyway” yeah on any tank that isn’t russian. I actually kept tallies once before, and shooting at T-72 and later russian tanks about 80% of my first shots that hit fuel tanks did not explode, had to shoot the fuel tank twice to detonate it. In my nato tanks, fuel tank hit kills me almost every time on first hit.

  49. when i shoot turms tanks flat in the side with my mbt-70 apfsds with 346mm of pen it never penetrates. with my mbt-70 where I see turms tanks almost every game it is quite literally impossible to one shot a turms from the side or front because I have to hit the era and destroy it I have to then hit the exact same spot with a second round to penetrate it

  50. We will be finding out very soon how good Russian tanks really are.

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