Source: The Mighty Jingles
Submarine Test #3 is up! Yeah, I know, we weren’t expecting it either. Actually, I have a theory about that…
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Why is there such a stat difference between the Cachalot and U-69?
Well, that’s easy, Jingles. They haven’t decided on the final balancing, so they want to test out two different balance levels at the same time.
Makes sense in at least two ways, really.
First, they don’t have to go through the trouble of setting up two sessions of the testing, making changes and testing again. Second, and this is directly a result of the former, they can also test both stat lines on roughly the same player base, under the same circumstances. Rather than looking at two entirely separate sets of results, they’re looking to see the two compete in the same environment, to see which ‘food chain’ they think is more healthy for the game, overall.
Cranius Dominus I’m agreeing with you. I’m not trying to measure experience.
@Shea Samuels Sorry if it came across like that.
I just felt like I was being given too much credit for an observation that is, in fact, blindingly obvious to anyone with the right background.
Cranius Dominus not too much credit, just reinforcing the point for those in the comments section without the same background.
Giving wargaming that much credit seems unfair. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the German sub is the stupid weak one.
Well, that’s easy. No submarines. Same principle applies to WoT, no wheeled vehicles.
Submarines just baaaaaaad idea shelf it this current iteration has to be a way to distract from PR fiasco.
They fucked up the Peurto Rico and now they’re fucking up the Submarines! #QuitWarships
Thanks for breaking your own game Wargaming.
Hate to ride the well hate train but this is not a good look at a time when relations with the community are at an all time low. Weegee Stop trying to distract with us with dumb thing after dumb thing admit you f**cked up and do something better than refunds to fix your mistake, in the mean time stop trying to distract with things like this, cuz if this isn’t a distraction and you don’t think these things would be DETRIMENTAL to the game then kiss WoWs goodbye.
the whole WG WOWs team is smoking too much weed now. the whole game has game has fallen apart
HOW TO FUK DO I PARTICIPATE
WG have no fukin idea about theyre doing. Its not about “realism”, its about common sense. The dont get a grasp on either >.>
Why does it feel like whoever was in charge of balancing the 268 v.4 and the defender etc. got transferred to the WoWS department?
Why is the U-69 so much worse? Because this is a Russian game and it is a German sub!
Finally a more broken class than the CVs. Now we can use delete button torps to rid our games of that cancer! Reeeeeeee
“Oh Christ Fuck of Paul”
Top tier internet content to start the holiday week on. xD
All of these mechanics seam to be in place so they can justify a new dockyard grind… For the new premium soviet submarine the Akula class….
I just hope that the 4th iteration of the submarine testing isn’t carried out on the live server like they did with CVs!
I actually do remember you complaining that it there was nothing a submarine could do to save themselves when under attack from a destroyer, Jingles.
And question: if a ship hides in smoke, can they hide from a submarine, even when the submarine uses sonar pings? The answer SHOULD be “no”, but this is a game where destroyers can sink battleships with gunfire. So in game, can ships hide from submarines in smoke?
i look at submarines and wonder why wg thought this was a good idea, i hope I’m wrong but this feels like making battleships and heavy cruisers obsolete.
Haven’t seen a sub yet in the public test. Also opened all my containers. (8)
I know that this is a game and sacrifices (changes) need to be done for the sake of balance and fun gameplay, but I dont understand why not to start with a 100% realistic sub model and start changes from there. That said:
1) Cant see why subs cant surface; 2) Cant see why subs cant surface AND use deck gun (if they have one)… I know a uboat dont stand a chance against a full hp destroyer, but that deck gun can be used to finish off a very low hp DD… thats one example.
At surface: fastest speed, lowest concealment, highest spotting, can recharge batteries.
Periscope: medium speed (water resistance + diesel engine with snorkel), can recharge batt cos diesel eng with snorkel, medium spotting range, medium concealment;
Deep water: slowest speed (water drag + electric engine which is weaker), dont recharge battery, no spotting because no visual, just detect things with pings but cant see or target anything, highest concealment etc
Have they tried first most realistic possible BEFORE trying changes for gameplay balance?
Just that “cant surface” already feels an abomination, a no-no good.
Russian Game Developers showing their Hatred for all things German Military. You don’t say! Ladies and gentlemen I give you the VK 30.01, VK 36.01H , Tiger I, and Tiger II in World of Tanks
Meanwhile are World of Warships HQ: “Sir, We have incoming rounds our position is detected the Salty Flaming Rounds from the wreckage of the USS Puerto Rico!
ALARM! Fire Sub Test Server!:
Narrow spread sonar vs wide spread: my suggestion is that sound isnt travelling through water faster like you said, but instead the sonar man is able to identify and acquire targets faster from the data because there is less data to process.
The ability to keep ships spotted for the whole team even if they are hiding in smoke seems extreme too.
Jingles, did they listen during the CV rework? Nope! Will they listen during submarine testing? Nope! As you said their introduction is game breaking for Heavy Cruisers and BB’s. In WoT they claim SPG’s prevent camping. If the subs get introduced WoWS will become a total shit show with a clump of ships lemming around and no one in their right mind playing Heavy Cruisers or BB’s. Having tested the subs you right the Citadel damage after maintains a ping lock is absurd and easily done. What about British and Italian cruisers with no HE. Most Italian cruisers are Heavy cruisers, no torpedoes no chance. You forgot to mention Sonar pings that go through islands!
to draw attention away from… maybe a pr shit storm of fuckoid magnitude. stares at a Caribbean island that should be a state
For me is so sad that the USS Perto Rico has a really bad controversy over it, because of greed. And also the fact that a warship was named after my birth island.
I think this is a simple fix actually.
Keep both the battery power and the O2 tank. Increase travel speed on the surface, and allow subs to be able to fire their deck gun. Deck gun should be very quick reload, but low damage. Subs don’t fight with deck guns, but it would be handy for causing some damage while fleeing and refilling O2 & battery. This keeps arcade gameplay AND realism (to a degree of course), because you need both battery power to maintain pings and sight of enemy ships underwater, but you will still be forced to quickly move, attack, and escape before you are forced to resurface surrounded by enemies. As a sub you must be quick, fast, and precise to do damage. You are like a sniper. You do heavy damage from behind, you are valuable and vulnerable, but you cant win the war by yourself. You are a critical support with many vulnerabilities that must be balanced out. Not a class for everyone, not game breaking, but critical if the vulnerabilities are supported by everyone on your team.
Do WG miss the pre-rework CV minigame we had going and are desperate to re-introduce the mechanic? So far the subs are ticking that box, rubber stamping the letter and wax sealing the envelope. Subs are entirely their own game which impacts massively on the other players who are in the same match but has no real interaction with them other than fortunate circumstance – but as noted, unlike the pre-CV rework if you do see a Sub there’s really nothing you can do about it – you could at least shoot and sink at CVs while they were playing “top-down-kill-box” back in the day.
The 2018 halloween experiment was fun because everyone was in the same boat (no pun) – a team of subs acting together against a team of bots. Fun mini-game, something different, and no-one in the ships could get pissed off coz they weren’t real people. WG seemed to of missed that real-person aspect of the success. Sub’s are just going to be the new (and I really hate this next term in-game but can’t think of anything better) “cancers” which is just code for players laughing at other real people who can’t do jack shit back. Sound familiar WG?
Ooo… Shiny! Subs! Comments: – I think they mean detectability in a storm or smoke ( surface ) or while firing. As always, we shall see… 1km would be closer to historical accuracy, for sure. – They have a raging dumpster fire to put out, so probably 2-3 weeks early. Lol. – Battery is excellent vs oxygen. If you drain it completely, you are kind of immobile? Subs in real life could ( and did often ) submerge and stay that way for several hours in a stationary position, making it nearly impossible to locate them if anything else was nearby ( why they loved harbors if they could sneak into them – you simply could not find them ) – Shooting other subs is.. I guess you CAN blind fire a torpedo in most sub games, but… yeah.. still, not allowing it at all would have made gameplay a bit more salty I suspect. – Hydro is excellent. These people trained for months and became able to identify some ships engine types/type of ship purely by sound – without computers!
– Homing torps should just be removed from the game. The only homing torps in WWII were manned things almost like a cross between a jet ski and a torpedo – and required someone to essentially sacrifice themselves to run them. Ping to get a range lock to fire magnetic sensor torpedoes that do extra damage as they explode under the hull (but that are at most 50% reliable) – or not – and blind fire impact torpedoes. This *suggested* mechanic is taken straight from Silent Hunter – guaranteed normal damage or possible citadel as the ship cracks in half – IF you get the explosion perfectly under the middle if the ship. Most of the time, they just sailed past or detonated early – with the anti-torpedo defenses taking almost all of the brunt.
– I think that they disabled surface play to just test underwater play. I surely hope so.
Can’t wait for Surface to surface missiles…
Well… Wargaming can simply make the Submarine another branch of games and title it World of Submarines. They already have World of Tanks, World of Warships, World of the things that fly (Airplanes I guess), so making new branch of game World of Submarines make a lot of sense.
Just from the intro…in Silent Hunter those torps either would have bounced at that angle or been duds due to German torps tending to bend the copper contact detonator at any angle other than almost 90 degrees. Americans had the same problem since the MK. 16 was only test fired twice. Plus at that range anyone would have seen the captain pop the scope up. Engaging warships on the surface was also suicide.
The Catchalot and the Nautilus had 2 6 inch deck guns. . Going with the after WW1 idea that’s subs were mainly commercial raiders and occasionally surprise fire power in fleet engagement. Both defended Wake Island and spectacular struck out.So much of naval and tank warfare has been a case of ” Well. This might work.”. Be well. D.
Ram is easy to explain. Observing several rams with surface ships, it’s obvious WG reworked the ram mechanic. Ships that have more HP are more likely to survive. The sub you rammed was a U-69 and you were driving a Cachelot. QED.
“Address your complaints to war gaming…” Rapidly becoming a full time job!
can wg do anything right?
they should give certain ships with cat fighters access to depth charges. If a friendly ship pings a sub, you can launch and attack it, maybe within a certain radius automatically.
If “Ping-Pong” is not a replay episode title I will….do… something. Use it!
Jingles, are you aware of the fate of U-864?
submarine commander is that you one like if you played that game
I sometimes wonder if War Gaming is actively trying to sabotage their own game because it sure looks like it.
Ugh wargaming wargaming wargaming….
Yeah. I do want the subs to mimic their real capabilities in some way but can see how it is difficult how to get game mechanics to fit that, and be balanced and be fun and challenging. I mean will look at CVs vs subs – I reckon CVs should have a small depth charge squadron that has special spotting for submerged subs but that these should also be slow and therefore vulnerable while “searching” for subs. Or should rocket squadrons have interchangeable rockets/depth charge outfits??
So Expert Loader is no longer nice in a BB, it is mandatory?
Pressing the cancel button on subs in WoWs would make for a nice present under the ?
Funny thing to me is: I think the easy fix to some of this is to make the torpedoes only home in if fired AFTER a target is pinged at least once. And stop homing if it drops off. Suddenly people get more warning because you ping them and THEN the torpedoes start coming for them. (and prevent around island attacks that make no damn sense without the need to make islands block the sonar ping. Not that that isn’t a good idea mind you.)
also the battery recharge should definitely be a ‘surface to do this at any reasonable rate’ situation. It means subs have to be vulnerable or give up chances to do damage, a perfectly balanced trade off. Throw in HE shells having large blast radius on striking water for hitting subs and you have mostly mitigated the issue. BB’s still need ASW options (Hi there catapult plane!) and CV’s could do with ASW weaponry on their rocket attack planes. (Shortest sprint range and this would give them more to do.)
Fix the whole ‘while pinged you are detected even in smoke or through islands’ situation and it’d be much more playable.
aLSO CAPS 😀
My son laughed and said None of this game is historically accurate not just the subs
When ARE submarines coming out, anyhow?
Subs are such a mess. I’m just crossing my fingers that they keep running into problems thru idiocy and the things never show up in randoms.
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